EPISODE 5

How Should We Document The Moment?

LENGTH: 54:58 | AIR DATE: 1/22/2021

How we examine history today determines how we imagine a more equitable future. Who will help us make sense of this historic moment of reckoning? In Episode 5 of #Millenniheirs, we paired a Gen X-er with a Gen Z-er to discuss the ethics of archiving and storytelling as social media platforms gain power while public institutions continue to decline. Host Jessie McGuire interviews Mark Tebeau, a Gen-Xer and public historian working on “A Journal of the Plague Year” documenting Covid-19, as well as Ziad Ahmed, a Yale University student and social justice activist who founded JUV Consulting to help companies understand how to engage with Gen Z. To hear more, listen below and subscribe to ThoughtMatter on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or SoundCloud.

BIOS

SYNOPSIS

In this episode, we discuss history, especially at a time when many of us are realizing that the history books we thought to be objective have been wrong. How do we make sense of this historic moment we’re living in? What does it mean to openly share personal stories in privately owned digital spaces? Which narratives should we give power to while keeping compassion front and center?

My question as a historian is actually one about power itself. Is this really challenging the core power relationships? Or is it just reproducing them in another form?

Mark Tebeau

(7:03) When digital historian Mark Tebeau took on the task of crowdsourcing and recording stories and experiences related to the Covid-19 pandemic, he realized that this “800-pound gorilla of digital archive” needs to be rooted in ethical values. He explores how we can inspire people to contribute in a way that gives their voices importance and gives meaning to this historical moment. Mark’s exchange is with Ziad Ahmed, a 21-year-old entrepreneur and bright student who considers social media to be an archive in itself due to the intrinsic nature of his generation that chronicles events and shares stories through platforms such as TikTok and Instagram.

(9:30) Mark draws a distinction between public and private space, and the role played by social media when owned by powerful corporations whose core interest is to make profit and sell things. He explains how this power relation is historically embedded in white people taking advantage of the stories of non-white and non-elite people. Are we challenging this core power relationship or just reproducing them in another form?

(11:14) Ziad claims his generation was built on a creative culture of memes and movements, while Mark regrets that historians can’t access memes or private jokes from earlier times. Dark humor can often hold powerful insights into the different stages of transformation of a society. Meme culture has also transformed storytelling and allowed young people in particular to disrupt mainstream narratives and flip the script in many ways. However, Mark reinforces the point that social media has enabled not just a counter-reality narrative but a counterfactual one that many people, regardless of generation, have fallen prey to.

(18:00) Ziad agrees that a lot of things need to change about social media, especially concerning the spread of fake news and misinformation. By the same token, it has also allowed young people to build solidarity and create global movements to effect change. From his perspective, Gen Z is discerning enough to detect misinformation because of the critical acuity and stronger “bullshit filter” of its social media users compared to older generations.

(25:35) For Mark, the pandemic has exacerbated the decline of essential conversations in public spaces due to social distancing, compensated in part by the rise of digital culture and the need to connect online. Ziad doesn’t see a rigid dichotomy between private and public. TikTok’s platform, for instance, generates fascinating discourse among its users and feels public despite the understanding that it is driven by a huge, corporate, profit-seeking organization. While Mark emphasizes that university campuses are unique public spaces based on their cultural values, Ziad wonders, what makes a private university different from TikTok?

(33:12) The conversation progresses to identify the kind of public discourse happening on the scale of local communities that differentiates it from social media, which helps people connect in a more globalized sphere. Mark and Ziad agree that thoughtful local news has declined to the detriment of local public spaces and the communities that they host.

(36:35) As an oral historian, Mark acknowledges the difficult task of reporting all points of views including ones he doesn’t necessarily agree with, especially in today’s polarized political climate. Admitting that neutrality is impossible to achieve, he bears an ethical responsibility in the same way that the state has a moral obligation to treat everybody equally, regardless of political views.

(40:30) Ziad qualifies Mark as a moral absolutist and finds it difficult to provide a platform to people whose opinions may dehumanize someone else’s existence. He distinguishes between equality and equity, passionately illustrating a world where our differences are acknowledged and celebrated. Ziad further pushes the notion of equity as being more conscious, more thoughtful, more communicative. To him injustice requires confrontation and raising voices. When it comes to rebuilding systems, he will not find an ally in people who are already in positions of power.

(47:00) The discussion ends with Mark describing the essential role of public spaces in bringing back broader civic conversations while Ziad highlights how the digital world has helped him gain empathy and an understanding about issues he would otherwise be unaware of as a privileged young person.